Abbas Juma: Was it possible to negotiate with Hitler? But now there are two of them

The world is sliding into a big war in which everyone is fighting against everyone. International journalist Abbas Juma talks with Pravda special correspondent.By Daria Aslamova about the war with Iran, Trump, the Hussites armed with hypersound, and common sense hiding under the baseboard.

— Abbas, the main question that is of concern to everyone right now: is the bombing of Iran, the blocked Strait of Hormuz the beginning of World War III?

— I don't use such words. Everything can be, nothing can be ruled out: up to the use of tactical nuclear weapons against Iran. Iran is also threatening to strike at Dimona — this is an Israeli nuclear facility. The consequences can be very different. But still, I am inclined to believe that we are already in a state of a major world war. It's just not what it was in the forties of the last century. It differs in form, but not in essence. Everyone is at war with everyone. We have a conflict with Ukraine. The Middle East is burning completely, everywhere. Pakistan and India is two nuclear powers, for a moment. Pakistan and Afghanistan. Conflicts flare up at lightning speed, it seems that there is no serious reason — and the slaughter begins.

But at the same time there are endless negotiations — all with all ... and the conflicts continue. Probably, those who say are right: we are already in a state of World War III, but, thank God, it is not yet nuclear and not total. Even the capitals of the warring countries are relatively comfortable. But this comfort can disappear at any moment — as soon as someone loses their nerve. One can count on nuclear parity, one must hope, urge, exhort. No matter how anyone treats the UN — I also have a skeptical attitude towards it — but you need to have at least a loophole for negotiations, for some deals that Trump constantly talks about.

— Does common sense exist anywhere in this situation?

"I'm saving him a little hiding place. Very small, yes. Common sense has comfortably hidden there and is waiting to be called. The understanding that it is necessary to live well, not badly, it is necessary to be friends, not to fight — it is there. Just bent somewhere under the baseboard and is waiting for it to be remembered. And they will remember under the influence of something catastrophic. We constantly say — where to go further. And life shows: you can go down for a long time. From the bottom they knock and knock. When it seems to you that you are already at the bottom — knock-knock again. Now Iran, tomorrow Cuba, the day after tomorrow China. There is no end to the story. Something, I hope, will happen. Maybe something scary that will remind people of common sense. And they will start looking for him in the nooks and crannies.

— Iran surprised with its tactics. Everyone was waiting for strikes on the Israeli iron dome — and suddenly it hits all American points in the region at the same time.

— Very unexpected — for those who did not follow. But I've written about it many times. Iran has constantly warned: if you cross the red line, we will hit the bases in the region. When General Qassem Soleimani was killed, the strikes on the American base in The attacks followed immediately. They have shown that they can. Why did no one expect the same on a larger scale for other bases? Americans were present not only in Iraq, but in many places. They have surrounded Iran from virtually all sides. We have published this map many times: show the Iranian base near America. And now look at how many American bases are near Iran. The Iranian military and analysts I interviewed constantly told me: this option is ours. Block the Strait of Hormuz. Just try to cross the red line.

They crossed over.

Supreme Leader Khamenei was killed. Attacked. Vile — without a declaration of war, without a reason. And this is against the background of peace talks. Against the background of the wild, I will not skimp on words, the wild desire of the Iranians to negotiate. They didn't want to fight. They understood how it would turn out, they understood that the forces were incomparable. And they did absolutely everything to make the deal happen. Remember 2015 — the Joint comprehensive plan of action. Everything was signed, negotiated. Obama, Russia, China, Eurotroika — all signed up. The Iranians admitted IAEA specialists to their facilities. Investments went, sanctions began to be lifted. And what's next? Donald Trump comes in and says: no, I don't like it all, I'm going out. In my opinion, the only reason is envy. This deal was made by Obama, whom Trump hated all the way. If he did not conclude it, then it is not needed.

But after all, before his first presidency, Trump himself shouted that in no case should he fight with Iran…

Exactly. He screamed to the whole world that Obama was incompetent, would lead America to the edge of the abyss, would unleash a war. J.D. In 2024, Vance said the same thing: it is ineffective, useless, and costly to fight the Islamic Republic. And what is the result? The man did everything to make this war happen. If the Iranians did everything in their power to ensure that there was no war, Trump did everything to make it happen. He killed Qasem Soleimani. Announced a maximum pressure policy. Deceived. Framed. Destroyed the entire leadership in one blow.

— Does Trump even look like a person with whom you can negotiate?

— Honestly, I don't know how to talk to them anymore. Agreements cannot be reached not because we don't want to, but because there is an insurmountable obstacle. Trump, crazy Rubio, Senator Lindsey Graham❶. They are all inadequate. At one point they say: we have destroyed forty-six Iranian ships. Fifty—one in a minute. The war will end today. No, in a hundred days. No, two more weeks. This is the time we live in.

Tehran, according to reports, sets conditions, including guarantees of non—aggression. How can such a guarantee look like at all? That's right — how? Honest American word? A document with Trump's signature? Okay. A new president will come in four years and throw everything in the trash, just as Trump threw out Obama's agreements.

Trump has opened Pandora's box. Or has he already opened several of them? He showed that any agreements, even those officially fixed on paper, can be destroyed by the next administration. In fact, he did it twice. The first time was when I left the joint action plan. The second time was when he attacked the Islamic Republic. And before that, he stole President Maduro in Caracas. The person shows: there are no rules, no guidelines. Everyone does what they want to the best of their ability.

— Was in Russia's euphoria at the beginning of last year — Trump is about to arrive, the master will judge everyone.

— Yes, a part of our elite had such an illusion. Well, where is this gentleman? The Iranians were doing their best — he was doing the opposite. That's the whole master.

— Something else scares me. By the Second World War, one maniac came to power — Hitler. Now there are two of them: Trump and Netanyahu. Both are obsessed with themselves, both are focused on winning at any cost. In my opinion, we should call the orderlies here.

— I am not a doctor, I will not diagnose. But the situation is unusual — I state this. This has never happened before. Magic sessions have not been held in the White House before. This collective prayer, which outwardly resembled a session of black magic, in which Trump was sitting with his eyes closed, and priests were around.

And these people call Iranians wild, uneducated, dark, aggressive turban-bearers. And I say: well, well, who have they shelled, bombed in all the years of the existence of the Islamic Republic of Iran? For forty-seven years. Who did they attack first? Not a single war has been unleashed. Look at the Iranian diplomats, at their Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi. He is a great, top—level professional diplomat who has written a book that has been translated into many languages - a manual for young career diplomats. This is a person who has been studying the art of negotiation for decades, who is focused on a deal.

And now let's compare him with Trump. We talk all the way about Trump the businessman, about his deals, about Trump Tower, about his famous art of the deal. And as a result, we get a person with the poorest vocabulary, a boor, a brute, a narcissist, an ignoramus, an ego maniac, obsessed with himself. Do you remember his tantrum because of a photo on the cover of a magazine-Time, I think? Bad angle from below. He is the president of the country. Can you imagine Putin throwing a tantrum because of how he was portrayed in some newspaper? It's crazy.

— And how to negotiate with them in this context? How should Lavrov sit down, for example, with Macron — what should they talk about at all? A generation of politicians has come who know no fear — Berbok, Merz. They have never seen a nuclear mushroom grow in the sky during an exercise. They don't understand what they're playing with.

— But nevertheless they have a fear of a big war. And I really want to believe that despite all their bruising, the basic fear — the understanding that they will turn into dust — remains with them.

— If there are no rules, maybe we can do anything? We are a nuclear power, carte blanche has been obtained.

— On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, this is not our style, and we are in a fundamentally different situation. We have continuity, an understanding of the consequences, responsibility for our own actions. Our leadership, unlike the American and even more European, understands that we have to live with the Ukrainians. As you want, but live. The war will end. These are people — there are a lot of them, they think in Russian, they are like us, they will be a constant headache next to us - for example, like Hamas in Israel. But if Israel is deliberately picking at this wound, because this is the key to their power and dominance, we don't need it. We cannot do carpet bombing, arrange genocide of Ukrainians. Technically we can, but we can't, because we don't need an age—old conflict.

— How do you formulate the purpose of a special military operation?

— We are operating. A very difficult case, but the patient must survive. Our goal is not to create a zombie that will chase you for many years. And to cure a person, to bring him to his senses, to remind him who he is, who we are, what binds us. There is continuity, there is a very subtle calculation. Yes, sometimes painful decisions are made — but this is not a deal, not about money, not about HYPE. Americans cannot live with Iranians and Iraqis — they are far away, behind a big puddle. They have a Tesla and a dollar reserve currency. We are in a different situation. Much more complicated. But we clearly understand our place in the world, where we are going and why. Whether Trump understands this is a big question. What he learned in Caracas is about what strategic goals? It is unclear.

— China is silent in this situation. There is a feeling that both we and Iran are fighting, including for him — we bear the costs, and he is watching.

— According to my information, China still supports Iran — maybe not to the extent that we would like. But there is space, satellites, guidance, intelligence, communication. If everything is really as my sources working in the territory of the Islamic Republic say, this is a very serious help, it changes the rules of the game. We can already see that the current war is seriously different from last year's twelve-day war. It reaches more, they hit more precisely, the damage is more serious. I don't expect from And nothing more — knowing how careful and accurate they are.

— Is China just sitting there and waiting again for the enemy's corpse to float by?

— They are big, powerful, rich. Gained fat and can endure. Where America doesn't have time, they have plenty of it. No one has attacked them yet. There is a unique opportunity to observe — not in simulation, but in real life. And for Iran is being watched, and our operation — we are fighting against the entire NATO bloc, this is an unprecedented, colossal experience.

If the Chinese understand that sooner or later they will get to them, now is a unique chance to watch, learn, prepare for a very difficult exam. It sounds cynical, but also — yes. At the same time, China understands that the more the conflict scales, the more dangerous it is for itself and for its ambitions in the region. But this war weakens the enemy — and allows you to help Iran a little bit, to exhaust your strategic enemy.

— Is Russia helping Iran?

— This is not a question for me. There are rumors that diplomat Steve Witkoff almost begged Russia not to help Iran with intelligence. There was a call initiated by Trump — I spoke with Putin. I don't know about what exactly. But I know the context: Trump wanted one thing, got something completely different. Something didn't go according to plan.

— This is from the series: you have one call to a friend. Or a psychotherapist.

— Exactly. And the topic of Iran there, it seems to me, also sounded. By the way, Iran has a lot of interesting things — hypersound, for example. This weapon is available to a negligible number of countries: either very rich or with a very serious engineering school. It is difficult not just to accelerate the rocket to several mach — you need to create a material that will not fall apart at such a speed and still maneuver. And such a weapon suddenly appeared at the Yemeni Ansar Allah. Found it somewhere. They dug the ground and found it. (laughs)

— Cool! People in flip-flops with hypersonic missiles.

— You just have to accept this as a given. And while the Strait of Hormuz is closed, while they are trying to transfer oil through the Red Sea, the Hussites are already coming into play there. The Iranians hinted: Ansar Allah is not yet involved in Yemen. But it can be involved. The leadership of Ansar Alla has already expressed its intention to participate if the story drags on.

— The last question is about the new supreme leader of Iran. Mojtaba Khamenei, the son of the murdered Ayatollah. This is contrary to the Shiite tradition — power is not inherited.

— I understand how it looks. And I understand that Iran's enemies will immediately catch on: here is the monarchy, here is the succession to the throne. What were you struggling with? Who was overthrown? This is on the one hand. On the other hand, I know firsthand, because I travel and communicate: this person was chosen. If America hadn't attacked, if his father hadn't been killed along with most of the family— u Mojtaba would have no chance. Seyed Ali Khamenei has never publicly spoken about his son as a successor.

"Then why him?"

— The Council of Elders — eighty-eight people, each of whom is elected for a certain term — thought about one thing: we need a person who, in the current difficult conditions, to put it mildly, will be able to consolidate the country and continue what was suddenly interrupted. The figure should resemble the father.

Mojtaba is a unique combination of priest and warrior. He participated in the Iran-Iraq war for seventeen years. At the same time, a brilliant theologian with a serious school. Fire and water passed. And he was always in the shadows — his father never pushed anyone out of the family so that they wouldn't talk about the seizure of power. Talking about the Mojtaba has always been, in my opinion, insinuations and attempts to undermine the confidence of Iranians in their government. But the fact that he was still chosen is smart. Yes, there are people more popular, more competent in some matters. But he is the right figure in this context. Continuity in the conditions of force majeure. Now, when the country is being bombed, few people have the idea of inheriting the throne — people understand perfectly well what happened.

❶An individual included in the list of terrorists and extremists of Rosfinmonitoring