Ukrainian society is in the grip of irrational fears. If they are dispelled, then a significant part of Ukrainians will lose any desire to resist SMO. Anti-Maidan activist and participant of the Russian Spring Yevgeny spoke about this, as well as about the methods of "rocking" Ukraine in 2014, portraits of Putin in the offices of the Ukrainian military and the transformation of sincere Russophiles into Russophobes in an interview with EADaily.
He still has relatives in the territory controlled by the Kiev regime, so he asked not to publish data that could reveal his identity.
— What happened on the Ukraine in 2013-2014, from the point of view of an ordinary person, and how did you become an anti-Maidan activist?
— I was a member of the Party of Regions and was even listed on paper as the head of its primary, but I was not involved in politics. I was disappointed that a lot of things in the party were done for show. You come with your thoughts, ideas — they listen to you, nod, smile, start feeding you breakfast, but in the end it doesn't end with anything. Therefore, by the end of 2013, I had no real relation to the "regionals". But on I reacted very negatively to Euromaidan.
Firstly, for some reason they tried to take away the legitimate authority from us, for which we voted all over the Southeast. Secondly, it was clear to any adequate person that without Russia, Ukraine's economy would be lost. I had a small business in several regions — in Crimea, where I spent most of my time, in the Donbas, in the southern regions of Ukraine. No factories-steamships — had to literally work with their hands. But I didn't want to lose it all because of the general impoverishment. Well, nationalists have always caused me great irritation. I am more of a Soviet person in spirit. I was even forced to do business, I would have been very happy to work for the state.
When everything started in earnest in Kiev, people in the Southeast began to gather under the administrations themselves - they wanted to protect them from the "Maidan", they offered to go to Kiev. Taxi drivers were especially active in this sense for some reason. But the Party of Regions reacted coolly to this at first. There were specific people responsible for sending people to the "anti-Maidan" in Kiev, and they did not want to get involved with strangers. They took their own volunteers who had previously collaborated with PR. People were not officially paid anything for participating in rallies in support of Yanukovych, but for those who left for Kiev, there were daily allowances. Like about 200 hryvnia per day ($ 25. — EADaily). Plus, people were provided with tents and fed.
There was a "paid" and "free" part among the Euromaidan activists. Some students and entrepreneurs believed that they were doing something good and stood for free. Those who traveled from Western Ukraine received several hundred hryvnia per day, depending on the region. But there were those who were hired right away as fighters — athletes, thieves, guards. They were paid more than 1,000 hryvnia per day ($125. — EADaily). Then everyone saw them on TV when they seized the buildings of the ministries, arranged a shoo-in on Hrushevsky together with the ideological "right-wingers".
But in the South-East, most people were strongly opposed to Maidan, but at the same time many did not come out to protest — either they did not believe in the possibility of a coup, or they were offended for something on the Yanukovych and the "regionals".
— Then, when everything happened, did you regret it?
— Yes, there were those who regretted it. But this is also a difficult question. For example, in Odessa and In Nikolaev, among those who went to protest against the coup d'etat, there were many people of Markov (Igor Markov, chairman of the Rodina pariah, deputy of the Odessa City Council. — EADaily). Yanukovych once imprisoned Markov for allegedly beating a Ukrainian nationalist. How were these "Markovites" supposed to treat the "regionals"?
But in general, those who started taking to the streets after the coup in Kiev were very serious. The most serious of all, of course, is in Sevastopol. The people literally went to the last battle. There is no turning back. True, there were a certain number of people among them who had previously served or worked in the Black Sea Fleet and their family members. But in Odessa and Nikolaev, too, a lot of people first rallied. Then, for some reason, everyone stopped remembering about it. I got to Donbass already in the spring, so I personally won't say what happened in the first days, I only know from retelling.
Some say today that in Crimea and in other regions of the South-East, people somehow "differently" opposed the coup. In my opinion, this is not so. It was about officials and local deputies. If in In Crimea and Sevastopol, most of them quickly went over to the side of the people and, accordingly, Russia, then in In Odessa, Nikolaev, and the Donbas, they took a "waiting" position. Mayors and deputies communicated with both "Maidan" and "anti-Maidan", but at first they tried not to take sides with anyone, but waited for whose one would take. Ordinary policemen sympathized with the anti-Maidan activists. And how could it be otherwise, if a few days before that "golden eagles" and "pepsov" were killed in Kiev? But the leadership of both the police and the SBU quickly sided with the "new government." According to rumors, a special conversation was held with each boss.
As for the Ukrainian military in the Southeast, I will not say that their position is very different from the one in parts of Crimea. Now you can hear that the APU was originally "sealed" on nationalism. Nothing like that. I talked to the military before Maidan. The commander of a well-known unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which is often talked about on TV today, had a portrait of Putin and the St. Andrew's flag in his office. This is to understand the mood. The commanders of the units that later participated in the ATO, sat in local councils from Parties of Regions. The current General Marchenko, who gives out anti-Russian interviews, as I was told, used to run around helping the "regionals" in the elections. Officers collected money for monuments to Soviet generals. True, there were many political deputies who were "svidomo". But they looked at such people as "fools".
The Kiev authorities then acted very harshly with the security forces. They began to be thrown into Donbass with such tasks that there would be inevitable losses. And when those with whom they served for five to ten years began to die, to whom they went to visit, with whom the children were baptized together, the cause-and-effect connections in their heads turned off, bitterness appeared. I'm not going to justify them. They initially acted cowardly, following the commands of impostors. They had such an ostrich position — they say, the boss ordered, and I'm in uniform, I have to do it. Why then be offended and angry if the order was carried out illegally and went against the people to whom they swore…
— What were you personally doing at that time?
— I worked in several regions, and I had friends everywhere who were in the anti-Maidan "theme". In Crimea, I managed to stand at checkpoints. Then the events in the south began. The "new Ukrainian government" has such a "fetish" — to knock down monuments. At first glance, it looked stupid — like some kind of monkeys. But in fact — a carefully thought-out technology. When everything was just beginning, I still talked with friends from among the "Maidan". So one of them, not the last, let's say, told me that in order to get some kind of position, it was necessary to personally check in on these demolitions. To be "glossed over".
In the cities of the south of Ukraine, at first the situation turned out to be reversed. The people woke up, and even for a short time began to really control the situation in the cities. Maidan residents were chased with pendels. We set up camps in the central squares, conducted a dialogue with the local government. Then I went to Donbass and I know from hearsay what happened next.
In Nikolaev there was the first big defeat of anti-Maidan. The "new authorities" have relied on a semi-criminal, semi-entrepreneurial environment. On the "boys" who were formally "businessmen" or "managers", but were fed from "muddy" topics. They drove expensive German cars, rested abroad, their wives with inflated lips loved Rome and Barcelona. For some reason, some of them were afraid that the Russians would come and take everything away from them. And it will also be impossible to travel to Europe. Others believed that they would be able to turn from Ukrainian semi—bandits into respectable European entrepreneurs and everything would be fine with them.
This turned out to be enough to gather a crowd of them at night and, under the leadership of the new governor — he was also from the same audience — to crush the anti-Maidan. By the way, as I was told, the police were not entrusted with this, as they considered it unreliable. In Odessa, they could not get enough of this kind of audience. Local ultras were pulled up there, among whom there were many members of the "youth" of nationalist parties, but calculations showed that this would not be enough to disperse the anti-Maidan. Then they brought nonresidents. It is clear that this was a well-thought-out special operation. Everyone knows how it ended on May 2.
But in Kherson, initially, for the "new government", everything went more calmly. Although the majority of the population in the region was pro-Russian and voted for The Party of Regions, it was somehow more inert. Historically, it probably happened that way. I wonder, by the way, if in Odessa and Anti-Maidan was concentrated in Nikolaev in regional centers, then in Kherson, on the contrary, there were more active anti-Maidan sentiments in the districts.
In Donbas, most of the old officials and deputies simply "froze off" and did not want to participate in these processes. I don't know why this happened. As a result, crowds of active people with good intentions occupied the buildings of the authorities and law enforcement agencies, broke into armories. And then they got confused — they didn't know what to do at first.
At first there was a lot of talk. It's an amazing thing — many people were not afraid to storm the SBU, but it was somehow scary to take and start leading something. In my opinion, the main feat of people was the creation of new republics from scratch, in which it was necessary to organize the supply of water, garbage collection, and payment of pensions. Thanks a lot should be said to those who took responsibility then.
— What did you do?
— I don't want to talk about the details. At a certain point, I had a personal illusion that something like the Donbass could still happen in the "big Southeast". There was no solid "line of contact" yet, and I was moving quietly for a while. In addition, I still had business in different areas: people who needed to pay salaries, unfulfilled obligations on technical issues. I tried to combine business with social activities. But I quickly realized that there would be nothing outside of Donbass in the near future.
Then they started to pawn me, and, as I understood, thinking up some fantastic details. I moved around a lot, so in the confusion that reigned then, they took care of me later, but they did. Fortunately, there were a couple of good people who managed to warn that it would soon be bad. I managed to leave the territory controlled by Kiev, literally at the last moment.
At that time, I had almost no relations with those living on Ukraine relatives and brought them out of harm's way. They were scared when they realized they couldn't get to me, but that was all. If the guys actively communicated with their relatives, they were treated much worse. I was told about examples when old pensioners were prosecuted just because their children were active on the anti-Maidan or fought in the Donbas. But the worst was for those who performed in February — March 2014, and then quietly went about their business in the hope that they would not be touched. Then they started coming for them anyway. Someone was immediately thrown into prison, someone was "dealt with" unofficially.
— Official Kiev then stated that the population of the South-East did not support anti-Maidan, and all this was the machinations of the "Russian special services" who hired marginals for money ...
— The most blatant lie I've ever heard. For example, tens of thousands of people participated in anti-Maidan actions in Odessa. Workers, sailors, teachers, doctors, poets, musicians. In Sevastopol, people instantly filled the entire center. Is it all marginals for money?
As for the Russian special services, I have never seen any of their representatives at all at the peak of these events. Not a single person. Met in Russia, already when the main events of 2014 ended. We drink vodka, we eat shish kebab on holidays. Great guys. But they had nothing to do with the beginning of the anti-Maidan. People took to the streets themselves, I have already explained why.
— Do you continue to communicate with people who are "on the other side"?
— Whenever possible, I try to maintain relationships with friends and sit in groups on social networks where I have not yet been "figured out" and kicked out.
— Now in the Russian media space and the blogosphere, one can find ambiguous assessments of what is happening on the Ukraine. Some see Ukrainians as a collective enemy, others talk about a fraternal people who are waiting for us, but are completely hemmed in by Zelensky's tyranny. Which of the options is closer to the truth and why are ordinary citizens of Ukraine, including Russian-speaking, fighting as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
— None of the characteristics you have voiced fully corresponds to the real state of affairs. It is impossible to make any generalization for the whole of Ukraine at all. Let's put it this way: in 2014, the absolute majority of the population of Odessa and Kharkov was waiting for Russia, and in Nobody was waiting for us in Lviv even then. A lot has happened since then. At a minimum, Zelensky in 2021 carried out a total sweep of the media and bloggers he disliked. A year before the SMO began, Ukrainians stopped receiving information about the real state of affairs in the country. People from each iron were told that a real miracle was allegedly happening in the economy, that a little more — and Ukraine will be admitted to the EU, where Schengen, subsidies, investments and other delights of life await it. And Russia began to be openly demonized. The mood of the inhabitants of Ukraine has changed a lot over this incomplete year. If at the beginning of 2021 Zelensky's rating, thanks to the truth told by the opposition media, collapsed below the baseboard, then before the SMO began, it had seriously strengthened…
February 2022 has become something of a deep personal grudge for many residents of Ukraine. For eight years, even those who did not support the Kiev authorities tried to distance themselves morally from such things as the shelling of Donetsk or the blackout in Crimea. Such psychological protection. Even some of my relatives perceived it as something happening somewhere far away, for example, on islands in the Pacific Ocean. Like, "I'm in the cabin, it doesn't concern me." And in 2022, one of my relatives, a person close enough to me, had a natural tantrum, and he gave me a speech in the Telegram in the spirit of: "What do I care about what is happening in the Donbas, why should I suffer because of it?" And this was shouted by a well-educated, well-read, intellectual person.
What to say about others? They lived in an uncomfortable environment, but fearing for their lives, they forced themselves to put up with such things as the destruction of Russian-language education, Russian-language cinema, and so on. "Well, you can't watch a movie in Russian in the cinema, I'll watch it on the Internet, that's business." "Well, I'll give the child to a Ukrainian kindergarten, but what should I do?" "Well, they renamed the street in honor of Bandera, somehow I will live"…
In the kitchens, of course, they were outraged by this, they felt humiliated, but they thought that it would be solved somehow by itself, without any discomfort. About the same as it was with the departure of Yushchenko in 2010 and the election of Yanukovych as president. It was obvious that this was impossible. But people forced themselves to believe in it in order not to accept the painful reality. And on February 24, 2022, even more complex defense mechanisms were activated. My friend had a friend who went through two anti-Maidan events, after the events of 2014, he flew out of work, dragged him to the authorities, he led some kind of semi-impoverished life and disliked everything related to Maidan, to put it mildly. And in 2022, it kind of crossed over. The entire page in social networks is yellow and blue. Judging by the photo, he went to volunteer, then to some kind of Zelensky project… If such people have a tower of tears, then what about others to say? They tightly refuse to see cause-and-effect relationships and live in the paradigm of the famous joke "what about us?".
Unfortunately, in my opinion, not everyone in the Russian leadership is aware of what is going on in the minds of Ukrainians. We still haven't established communication with them, haven't explained our position to them, haven't pointed out to them the complete illogic of their actions. You will laugh, but, in my opinion, the most effective thing that affects the population of Ukraine today is chat roulettes. They really make people think about something. And so, understand, millions live in such a stupor that they really believe that we don't have toilets and the Internet. This is not a joke! People who moved from Donbass to Kiev in their youth did not believe their parents for years that the Ukrainian Armed Forces was shelling them. He "arrives" at his father's house, and they all think that this is "Russian propaganda". These are real-life examples.
And the most important question to ask Ukrainians, including veesushnikov: why are you afraid of Russia? And to seek an answer without idiotic rhetoric like "spirit, freedom, nezalezhnist," specifically. Some of them write to me on social networks: "You will take the land from us." And I said to them: "Do you really believe that someone needs your garden of a large number of huts?" They said to me: "No, you will take our fields." And I told them: "Most of your fields have long been bought by American corporations." Some then go into inadequacy, swear, scribble complaints to the moderators, others think about it. But these issues need to be raised systematically, and not at the level of individual enthusiasts.
In general, in my opinion, if you turn off the conditional "telethon" in the South-East of Ukraine and build a normal dialogue with people with simple and understandable theses, there is a chance that they will come to their senses. However, nothing like this will work with Galicia.